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Swati2
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| | Thursday, January 09, 2003 - 5:45 pm: | 
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I have friends as well as relatives who have intercaste,interreligion,or inter-regional marriage. Out of those marriages only two were arranged marriages. Out of those two one failed because 'Ameriketala Javai' was the main filter. They got married withen eight days without giving much serious thought. It was an intercaste marriage. other one is going great. it is a inter-region marriage. Husband marathi and wife Kannad. Both were raised outside theirnative region moving all over India. Typical convent educated cosmopolitan type. Husband can't speak marathi well. They don't have much emotional attachment to their native culture.
Personally Maze jar ka love marrige zale asate tar caste/region/religion cha vichar kela gela nasata. Pan arrange marriage karatana mase khanara navara asava hi condition hoti. I have many brahmin friends who eat nonveg but it comes under occasionally. Ravivarchya jevanat mase havetach ase nasate. Most of them cannnot tolerate smell of dry fish. Ata arrange marrige karatana mazya khanyachya savayishi milatya julatya savayi asalela navara milanyachi shakyata mazya jatit kinva tashach traditionally non-veg khanarya caste madhe jast hoti. yatil kahi caste madhe hunda khup ghetala jato. mazya caste madhe lagnacha kharch donhi party vatun ghetat. Ata asha veli muli kade hundyachi paddhat nahi mhanun hunda nako ase hot nahi. I know one love marriage where girls parents had to shell out 'Hunda'. naturally ya hunda ghenarya jati exclude kelya gelya. He asech itar aspects na apply karat gelyavar mala mazya jatitlya/prantatlya/religionchya mulashi lagna karane yogya vatale.
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Aronja lagna Asaola tr Aantjaa-tIya krNao ho KUpca AvaGaD vaaTto. Asao lagna jar KUp AÜLK AsaolaÊ AÜiÔsa
iknvaa [tr izkaNaI barÜbar raihlyaamauLo trca hÜ Xakto.
Asao lagna krayacao Asaola tr tÜ maulagaa maulagaI svataha %yaancao naatovaOkÊ inadana Aa[vaDIla ho p`galBa
pNao ivacaar krNaaro Asaavaot. AaplyaakDo maulagaa iknvaa maulagaI ho 20 iknvaa 25 vaYaa-cao Jaalao trI
inaNa-ya Gao] Xaktatca Asao naahI p`%yaok baabtIt. kuTumbaacyaa kÜYaat AayauYya jagalyaamauLo svatna`
inaNa-ya GaoNyaacaI savaya sagaL\yaaÙa nasato. AaplyaakDo Amaoirkop`maaNao individualistic
samaaja nasalyaamauLo lagnaat nausa%yaa navara bayakÜ barÜbarca baaikcyaa naatovaa[kancaa sauwa ivacaar
kravaa laagatÜ. Aata AaplyaakDohI baroca laÜk ivaBa> kutumbaat rhat Asalao trI sagaLIkDo Asao AjaunahI
naahI. %yaamauLo hI gaÜYT Ajauna gauntagauntIcaI banato. AamacyaakDo AamaTIt gaUL jaast Gaatlaolaa AavaDt
naahI evhD\ya hÜT\yaa karNanpasaUna matBaod hÜ Xaktat. kuTumbaatlao inadana kahI GaTk ho baroca vaoLa
nausato GarakDo phat AsalyaamauLo Asalyaa CÜT\yaa gaÜYtInaasauwa jaast mah%vaa idlao jaa] Xakto. individualistic professional samaaja Asaola tovvhca Aantjaa-tIya ivavaah yaXasvaI hÜ] Xaktat Asao malaa vaaTto. naaihtr kÜNaalaatrI
³jaast k$na mauilaÙa´ KUp adjust kravao laagatoÊ AaNaI hI AvaGaad gaÜYT Aaho.
AaplyakDo jasaa jaatIcaa p`Xna Aaho tsaaca p`Xna Amaoirkot AjaUna ek dÜna ipZIt yaoNaar vanXaa va$na
pNa Amaoirkot sauwa jar Aronja lagna krayacaI pwt Asaola tr Amaoirkna maulagaa BaartIya vanXaacaI maulagaI
mau_ama pahIla ho AvaGaDca naahI kaÆ
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var ilaihlaolyaa majakurat AjaUna ek gaÜYT namaUd kraivaXaI vaaTto. jaatIlaa mah%va idlao tr lagaoca tÜ
maaNaUsa p`itgaamaI zrt naahI. p`%yaok maaNaUsaÊ kahI Apvaad saÜDUna %yaacyaa kaLatlyaa %yaacyaa BaÜvatIcyaa
samaajaat p`calaIt ÉZI yaa paL\t AsatÜ. mau_ama svataha vaogaLa ivacaar k$na yaÜgya kaya AyaÜgya kaya
Asaa ivacaar krNaara laaKat ek.
Aaja communication p`canD p`maaNaat vaaZlyaamauLo AaNaI inadana Xahir laÜkancaI rhaNaI hI sampuNa- jagaat javaL\javaL samaana
AsalyaamauLo Aantjaa-tIya AaNaI AantQa-maI-yaÊ Aantp`a-ntIya ivavaah krNao saÜpo Jaalao AsalaoÊ trIhI
kuTumbasansqaa jaÜvar puNa- ivaBa> hÜt naahI tÜvar ho AapNahÜ]na hÜNao qaÜDo AvaGaDca AahoÊ
maaJao mau_o baroca ivaskLIt Jaalao Aahot 
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BaartIya ivavaa*sansqaocaa [ithasa
ho [ithasaacaaya- rajavaaD\yaancao pustk
kuzo imaLU Xakola ho kuNaalaa maahIt Aaho kaÆ
Aaplyaa svatahacyaa Aajacyaa lagnaa ivaYayaIcyaa samajauitncaI mauLo kayaÆ ho samajauna Gyaavao Asao vaaTto
ekda.
maaJyaa maaihtI p`maaNao %yaa pustkavar bandI Aaho.
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lagna hI ek kayamacaI Adjustment Aaho. dÜna vaogavaogaL\yaa Gaarat vaaZlaolyaa vya>I jaovha ek~ yaotat tovaa %yaaMcyaa AavaDI inavaDIÊ
svaBaavaÊ baÜlaNaM caalaNaM saarKM AsaNao AXa@ya Aaho. ³laaKat ek Case AsaolahI´. %yaamauLo Aaplyaalaa adjust k$na ek~ saMsaar krayacaa Aaho ho t%va jyaanaI manaaXaI QarlaM to t$na jaatIla. individualistic ivacaar krayacaa Asaola tr lagnaacyaa BaanagaDIt na pDNao baro. Aata jaatI saar#yaa AsatIla tr p`qaaÊ
saNaÊ pQdtIÊ Receipe vagaOro sar#yaa Asatat mhNajao matBaod vhayacaa chance kmaI. maaJyaa AÜLKIcao ek jaÜDpoÊ AjaUna na Jaalaolyaa maulaanaoÊ caklaI mhNatanaa camacaa maQalaa
ca mhNaayacaa kI icaMca maQalaa yaa ivaYayaavar hNaamaarI krtat.
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Arch
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| | Thursday, January 09, 2003 - 6:55 pm: |
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lagna zrvatanaa jaatIlaa mah%va Vavao ikMvaa naahI ha p`%yaokacaa vaOyai>k p`XNa Aaho. tÜ tumhI kXaa
surrounding maQyao vaaZlaat (avar baracasaa AvalaMbaUna AsatÜ. maulagaa ikMvaa maulagaI kovaL jaatIva$na naakarNao
(apo@Xaa kÜNa%yaa adjustments krNa Xa@ya nasalyaamauLo naakarla (acaa ivacaar krayalaa paihjao. jar maI arrange marraige ca krNaar Asaona tr malaa kXaa baabatIt adjustment krta yaola ho maI svat : jaaNaU Xakto. %yaamauLo kXaalaa iktI p`aQaanyaa Vayaca ho p`%yaokanao Aapapla zrvala paihjao. karNa saMsaar
%yaaMnaa krayacaa AsatÜ.
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Ajjuka
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| | Thursday, January 09, 2003 - 7:59 pm: |
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Umeshjoshi,
tya pustakavar mulich bandi nahi. pustak aale tevha kadahcit asel. pustak out of print aahe pan punyachay Itihas Sanshodhak mandalachya library madhe te nakki aahe. jarur vacha. apan aaj ji kutumbasanstha kinwa bharateeya sanskruti mhanato ticha khara paya lakshat yeil. it can be a good eye opener to many sanskruti sanrakshak if taken in correct way.
abhyasapurna mahiti aahe. aaplya vivahavidhincha arthahi tyat dila aahe. pan indology varache academics vachanyat interest asel tarach vatela ja nahitar kantalavane hoil. because it is like a thesis.
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Rshubha
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| | Friday, January 10, 2003 - 3:06 pm: |
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kahI samaajaatÊ ]da. maarvaaDIÊ inter-caste lagnaamauLo kuTuMbaavar baihYkar yao} XaktÜ.
Aamacyaa kaLat Ajauna ek karNa Asao. tumhalaa jar QaakTI BaavaMDo AsatIlaÊ tr " tU lagna k$na maÜkLa ³LI´ hÜXaIlaÊ [traMcaI lagnao jamavatanaa Aamhalaa yaalaa tÜMD Vavao laagaola " Asao ek objection Asao. tumhalaa kaya vaaTtoÆ maulagaI / maulagaa baGatanaa tumhI %yaMcyaa BaavaMDaMcaI lagnao inter-caste Ahot yaalaa mah%va dota ka Æ tumacyaa vaDIla BaavaMDaMnaI Aasao lagna kolao tr %yaacaa tumacyaavar kaya
prINaama hÜ[la Æ
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Dalchini
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| | Friday, January 10, 2003 - 3:20 pm: |
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ho mee mahatva dile aste, would be navryachya bhavani kinva bahinini inter-caste marriage kele aste tar mee tya mulashi lagna kele naste.
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Maitreyee
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| | Friday, January 10, 2003 - 3:35 pm: |
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lagna zrvtanaa var vaQaUcyaa baihNaInao iknvaa Baavaanao kuNaaXaI lagna kolao Aaho yaacaa tr KrM kahIca
saMbaMQa yao] nayao. atleast, maI na@kIca ha ivacaar nasata kolaa .tsaahI %yaa gaÜYTIcaa direct impact Aaplyaavar hÜNyaacaI Xa@yata Ôar kmaI. AaiNa in case maÜz\yaa BaavaMDanao intercaste marriage lagna kolao AaiNa %yaacaa QaakT\yaacyaa lagnaat ADqaLa Aalaa trI %yaanho %yaat %yaa qaÜrlyaalaa dÜYa doNao
caUkca Aaho.
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Yogibear
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| | Friday, January 10, 2003 - 3:39 pm: |
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Maitreyee: samjhaa moTyaane inter-caste kele aani mag divorse jhaal or something else then will u give it a thought before marrying his brother or sister!!!
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Vinya
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| | Friday, January 10, 2003 - 3:51 pm: |
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yogibear: samaja mothyane inter-cast NAHI kele aani mag divorce jhaala then also u will give a thought before marrying his brother or sister!!!
divorce hone na hone yacha inter-cast kinva within cast lagnashi kay sambandh? tumchya lihinyatun ase suchit hote ki inter-cast marriages madhe divorce honyachi jasti shakyata aste. ani mala vatate he kahi khare nahi. aso. vishayantara baddal kshamasva.
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Yogibear
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| | Friday, January 10, 2003 - 3:59 pm: |
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Vinya: I was just posing a situation.
Generally navrya mulilaa/mulalaa bhavanDa asali ki ppl do ask about where have they got married or was it love or arranged etc yevhaDech suchit karayche hote.
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Rshubha
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| | Friday, January 10, 2003 - 4:06 pm: |
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yogi, what if they have love marriage within caste ? will your reaction differ ?
what if they had arranged inter-caste marriage ? what we are trying here, is what weightage you associate with individual factors: divirce, arranged/love marriage, within/inter-caste. Let's get a simple case scenario.
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Yogibear
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| | Friday, January 10, 2003 - 4:11 pm: |
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Rshubha: if they have 'love marriage' in caste/inter-caste/inter-religion/inter-regional still it wont make any difference to me cause when its a love marriage the whole equation changes. But if its 'arrange marriage' in especially inter-religion/inter-regional then certainly an attempt will be made to find the reasoning behind it.
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Keya
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| | Friday, January 10, 2003 - 4:12 pm: |
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lagna zrvatana maÜz\yaa Baavaacao baihNaIcao AaMtrjaatIya ivavaah Jaalao AsatIla tr %yaanao kaya frk pDtÜÆ
hÜNaara navara va baayakÜ ho Aaplyaa ivacaaraMXaI imaLto jauLto AsatIlaÊ Ô^imalaI vh^lyaUja vaogaL\yaa
Asalyaa trI caaMgalyaa AsatIla trÊ iXaxaNaÊ Aaiqa-k prIisqait ho sava- jauLt Asaola tr kovaL %yaacyaa
ikMvaa itcyaa Baavaanao Agar baihNaInao AaMtrjaatIya ivavaah kolao mhNaUna nakar doNao pTt naahI. AgadI
jaat pÜTjaat baGaUna lagna kolao trI iDvhÜsa- hÜ] XaktÜ. iDvhÜsa- hÜNao ha kahI gaunha naahI. iDvhÜsa-
ha AaMtrjaatIya ivavaah kolyaa mauLoca Jaalaa Asa maanaNaohI caukIcao Aaho. iXavaaya ekca jaatItlyaa dÜna
GarathI Aacaar ivacaarÊ svaOpakacyaa pwtIt frk AsaU XaktÜ. far kXaalaaÊ maaJyaa Aa%yaakDo va AamacyaakDo
Baajyaa krNyaacyaaÊ AamaTI ikMvaa varNa krNyaacyaa pwtI vaogaL\yaa Aahot. Aa%yaakDo jyaalaa AamaTI mhNatat
%yaalaa AamhI varNa mhNatÜ. itcao saasar va AamhI ekca jaat pÜTjaatItlao² %yaamauLo AamacyaakDo AamaTIt
gaUL jaast laagatÜ ho vaa@ya [qaohI laagaU hÜto.
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Beti
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| | Saturday, January 11, 2003 - 12:22 am: |
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yogee, why should ppl in for arranged marriage is inter-whatever marriage should be .... let's say.... interrogated more closely? Such ppl obviously do not give cast the highest priority. In other words they are open minded about an individual's qualities (rather than those considered to be of a group) and ready to consider (probably) different set of difficulties and enjoy different set of privileges.
I feel a person who is beyond cast or any such group would not under-rate u for being of the same cast either because for that person that criterion dose not exist.
Of course here my basic consideration is they are not 'fashionably' oblivious to cast. Personally I dont like that sect. Neither do I believe that marrying within cast is backward or outside cast is forward.
Socially, it is possible that torque of friction in intra-cast marriage would be less. Or rather the reasons for friction would be well-anticipated or even experienced among peers or earlier generations and you would be ready for most of them. But outside the cast marriages may have different benefits. All that matters is what u r ready to sacrifice for ur spouse and what u r not.
keyaa, winyaa I agree with you. keyaa gr8 posting!
shubhaa tho belated, welcome back! Now v&c will be really alive!
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koyaaÊ baoTI Cana pÜsT Aahot.
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Yogibear
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| | Saturday, January 11, 2003 - 2:03 am: |
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Beti: "interrogated more closely" <<< I didnt say we need to interrogate, but I would certainly like to know the reasoning, thats all. Nothing wrong in doing inter cast/religion/region etc but if its now love marriage, I would certainly like to know thinking behind such step in an appreciative manner.
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Beti
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| | Saturday, January 11, 2003 - 3:16 am: |
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ok yogi..sorry for a bit strong word...point taken...
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Great posting keya, beti- keep going..
Now, generally speaking (forgive me for a bit of diversion..but I think it is kind of related)- I think a principal problem with Indian society is that we meddle too much into each other's lives...We expect our loved ones to take their important decisions in a manner that suits us the best.And if they don't, then we call them selfish!Now, it is time to think- who is being selfish here? If children keep on loving and respecting their parents for what they have done, how does it matter if their choice of life partner (or career or any such important thing..), is not in accordance with their parents' beliefs? Are the parents not being overtly selfish when their definition of the kids being respectful is the kids behaving in line with what their parents' beliefs are? Is this love or possissiveness? I think it is just a meek attempt at saving a part our old culture which is "baba vakyam pramanam".
If you really love your children (or nieces, nephews..whatevevr), you would be happy for them that they took their own decision, even if you don't agree with it..because its finally not your life- it is their life and their problems, and they are the ones who konw whats best for them..even though you may have seen life more than them.
I think if the elder generation has such a mature view of the situation- there would be considerably less problems for people with inter-caste or inter-community marriages..
In most of the cases,these people getting married-themselves do not mind differences in food, customs etc..Otherwise they wouln't have gotten married in the first place..Usually they have that much sense in them.Its their families who create a problem for them by being difficult, it is the families which make it difficult for the couple by pointing out the diffrences e.g. "amachya ghari amatit gul jasti ghaltat" etc. etc. These same set of parents or elder ones are much more accomodative towards son-in-law or daughter-in-law , if they are from their caste and community.A lot of times the families of these people behave in such a hostile manner just toprove their point that inter-caste or inter- community marriages do not work..Well (thankfully) there are a signiicant number of exceptions to this and whether or not an inter-caste or inter-community marraige works or not largely depends on how open minded the families are towards such an alliance.
And we as Indians are so close to our families, that we can't completely avoid pressures from our parents or family.So without their cooperation it is kind of difficult for these marriages to work.Now, we as a society do not have to lose our close-knitness or love between family members in order to successfully function as true individuals..These options are not mutually exclusive..
True love will never expect the other person to sacrifise his/her individuality for you..true love would celebrate such differences and the richness that those bring to our lives..And in the same vein, a true individual is not out to torch the society, he/she is just leading his/her own life in the best way and that ultimately is only going to help in building a good society without prejudice.And inter-caste marriages will help a great deal in encouraging such an individualism and in curbing the unnecessary prejudices that all the castes have held against each other for centuries.The question of whether the differences are so overwhleming that it is coming in way of leading a successful married life, we should leave that question to the couples concerned because each set of circumstances are vastly different and only they are the best judges of the situation...
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Nrn
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| | Tuesday, April 22, 2003 - 12:28 am: |
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hi folks,quite a thought provoking article aditya.i truly agree with what u have said.just a few thoughts.we say that girls have a lot of freedom now a days.education cha,svatacha career develop karaycha freedom etc.infact lagnamadhe mulicha education is one imp factor.mag asha educated muline svatacha avadicha mulga,mag to doosra castecha ka asena ,kela tar evadi khalbal ka uthate?does edcuation mean that she is able to read-write ?ki tya education cha upayog phakta ticha sathi jasta paisewala mulga baganyasthi asato?does education not teach a person what is right and wrong and to think abt himself/herself?mala vatat ki lagna ha kitti zari social event asala tari finally it becomes successful only if mulga-mulgi r compatible whether from same caste or different.does having marriage in same caste in anyway guarantee no divorces or a successful marriage? no ,then y oppose intercaste marriage?finally marriage is supposed to bring people together.mag jya mulana apan evadi varsha pudhe jaun yaeshwant honya sathi pudhakar dila tyach mulanni fakta inter caste kela mhanun tyana door dhaklaycha?instead how abt having faith in ur child/brother/sister that the person who he/she is going to marry will be right person to keep the family together? prashana phakata vegalya chali ritin babat yeto.pan ha pharak aplya lokana kayamcha door dhaklun apun and te, asa saglyanna dukkhat dhakalnya yevda motha aahey ka?chali riti tar konala pan shikavta yetat.tasa pan same caste madhali mulgi/mulga asel tari tyana sagla yet aselch asa nahi.ani mainly jevha gharche loka asa samjutdar pana dakhavtat tevha the boy and girl indirectly become indebted to them for life .obviously na ,gharacha lokanni samjutine vagla tar konala pan tyancha badal adarch vatel.moreever when the family behaves as if everithing is normal with intercaste marriage in family then baherche loka pan jasti much-much karat nahit.from a big issue it becomes a non-issue.adn as far as marriage in a family with intercaste marriage should infact be more acceptable then getting married in family with rigid rules and regulations because who know tommorrow what other behaviour pattern may become a rigid rule in such a house.ofcourse the last one was just a passing thought.maynot be applicable everywhere karan jitiki mansa tevdha prakruti.pan one thing i feel people should do is ki ugich nava theu nayet.feel happy for the couple and wish them all the best instead of criticising them and spoiling the start of their life together.
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Mukund
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| | Saturday, April 26, 2003 - 11:47 am: |
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beti,yogi,aditya Maitryeee,kiya, Nrn
are tumhi var keleya uhapohawaroon tumchya saglya lokanchi intellectual level kiti ucchha aahe he prakarshane janwate.tumchchya saglyanche(ithe tumchya 6jananchech nav ghetle pan ya bb warche ani myboliwar-chya tamam sahmitranche)vichar wachoon majhya manat asa ek vichar aala ki aplya ithe bhartat asha vishayanche uhapoh karnyasathi lagna vaychya aadhi mula-muliinna stage dile jaate ka? mhanje aapan nehami aikto kinva bagto ki amuk thikani var-vadhu melawa zala.pan tya melawyat kinva parents tarphe kinva tathakathit vadhu-var suchak mandalanchya tarphe ashi bolnyachi sandhi dili jate ka? traditionally pahnyacha prakar mhanje pohe khane,mulgi-mulga baghane ani sarvansamor awagadhun basne ani prashna vicharne asa hot asayacha(horrible!).pan ya bb war tumchyapaiki baryach jannai je uttam mudde mandle aahet te points discuss karayachi sandhi mula-mullina milte ka? ani nasel milat tar vadhu var suchak organization kinva khudda parents ni upalabdha karun dene yogya honar nahi ka?nahitar swatii ne mhatlyapramane 8 divsat jyanni lagna kele ani marriage workout zala nahi asa prakar honarach (jar tyanni ya bb war upasthit klelelya muddyancha jar vichar lagnaaadhi kela nasel tar.)
majha sangayacha mudda ha ki intercaste or intracast marriage succesful whayche asel tarlagnaaadhi mula-mullini baryach fundamental points war discussion kele pahije.pan bhartat ashi sandhi saglyanna dili jaieel ka? ani jari sandhi dili tari kiti mule muli ashi deep vichar karnari astil ki tyanna exactly kay vicharayche ani baghayche(partnar madhe-apart from looks)he mahit aste? aata kahi jannana mala lagnanantar mase khata yawe haach (uthal) ek mukhya mudda asel tar gosht wegali pan lagna happy ani succesful vaiyla baryach ani kahi goshtinchi jaroori aste tyachi jar sarwasamanya oopwar var vadhhona mahiti dili tar arrange marriage sudhha KHAREKHURE sukhache ho oo shakel ase mala watate MAG TE INTERCAST ASO KINVA INTRACAST ASO KINVA INTERRELIGION ASO(catholic mulamullina lagnachya aadhi premarital counselling churchtarfe arange kele jate tyat te tyanna hech mudde discuss karayala lawtat lagnaadhi.)
mala adityache ekdam patle ki aplyakade bhaltyaach goshticha baoo kartat jase tyane mhatlyapramane AMCHY KADE KINAIEE VARNAAT EVDAACH GOOL GHALTAT! are tyapeksha vyaktiche goon bagha!e.g.thoughts,mannerisms,maturity,understanding,compassion,intelegence ,activities etc etc.are gool kami ghalnarya gharatoon aali mhanoon ka ti tumchya mulala fit nahi? nonsense! ani Nrn ne mhatlyapramane mulgi(kinva mulga sudhha) jari shiklelei asli/asla tari parents(sarv parents nahi bar ka yalahi apwad aahet)tine /tyane jar swatantra vichar kela mhanje intercast cha vagire tar tyala (manapasoon)support karat nahit.ani aditya ne mhatlyapramane hostility dakhwtat(tyancha point proove karnyasathi)hopefully hyache praman 2000 chya dashkat kami asawe.
mala kiya che sudhha mhane patle ki koni arrange marriage kartana tyanchya mothya/lahan bhavani/bahinini intercast marriage kele ahe kay yacha tumchya decision war kahich parinam ho oo naye.tyacha tumche lagna succesful ani happy honyashi kahich sambandh nahi. me war sangitlyapramane compatibility,maturity,willingness to adjust,compassion,character ya goshtinvar bhar dyawa(jar tumhala tevde discuss ani janoon ghyache soubhagya milale tar! within the limited scope of finding about a person in arrange marriage!)
shevti jata jata ekach sangawese watate ki lagna sukhi asanyacha ani te itercast kinva intracast kinva interreligion asanyacha sammbandh evda close nasto jevda how mature,understanding,adjustable,loving,mutual likings for hobbies ani compassionate nature ya gosshtincha sukhi ani fruitfull lagnashi asto.
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Brilliant posting NRN!!
About Education- you have raised an extremely interesting and important point.. What is education supposed to impart? An ability to decide take your own decisions..well I think so..But then if one views education in such a wholistic manner- then education means whatevver you learn in life- that would include influences from your family, school you went to, your workplace- in short your society.So well if we find that even very highly educated people (boys as well as girls) are lame as far as firm and convicted decision making is concenred..then doesn't that say something about our society? Something to think about..
I strongly believe that our education systems is highly didactic, teachers, parents and other members of the society are always busy molding the kids into sort of yes-men or yes-women..I may be exaggerating, (since I feel so passionately about this subjectof the dilemma of whether to be an individual or not in the indian society..)but there is definitely an element of truth to this.
Now there are a few amongst us who in spite of this atmosphere, attempt to break out and tread their own path.And with more urbanization, the difference between lifestyles of different castes is reducing considerably...As far as day-to-day life is concerned (except functions, rituals etc..), most castes in the same socio-economic strata will have similar lifestyles..So the difference or the hierarchy in lifestyles is being dictated more and more by the economic factors, rather than the caste which one comes from..This is one of the good effects of urbanization..So I am hopeful for the future..
Well, now this issue has several sociological implications too.The question is whether we as a society want to remain fragmented, divided into segments, harboring prejudices against each other or..do we want to understand each other more..thats the real question..And an inter-caste marriage offers such an opportunity..for families from two different castes to understand each other.In my opinion people should consider inter-caste marriage an option even in arranged marriage..And if we as a society keep on taking objections to this even if the bride and groom have decided to go ahead with it, then well what I can say..I'd say we have failed in keeping with the times, failed to move on and failed to progress..
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Nice posting Mukund...Very interesting..Let me think carefully abiut what I want to say and then I will respond in detail..
And thanks for all your compliments!Manaapasun Dhanyavaad!!
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Rajasee
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| | Sunday, April 27, 2003 - 10:24 pm: |
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The question is whether we as a society want to remain fragmented, divided into segments, harboring prejudices against each other or..do we want to understand each other more..thats the real question..And an inter-caste marriage offers such an opportunity..for families from two different castes to understand each other.In my opinion people should consider inter-caste marriage an option even in arranged marriage..And if we as a society keep on taking objections to this even if the bride and groom have decided to go ahead with it, then well what I can say..I'd say we have failed in keeping with the times, failed to move on and failed to progress.>>>>
aaditya, tula ase ka vatate ki nivval aantar-jaatiya lagna kelyamule samajachi pragati hoil?? ase pan hou shakte ki ashya mishra samajala vaganyasathi kontachi basic "code of conduct" nasel. je aapan bahuntanshi american sanskrutit baghota. kasalach dharbandh na thavalyamule tyanna swatachi ashi kontich sanskruti, aaharpadhati, aachar-vichar padhati urleli nahi.
mag aaplyala antar-vivah karoon nirman jhaleli anirbandh samaj-vyavastha havee ka swajatiy vivah karoon itar margane samajik vidweshachi daree kamee karata yete ka te baghayla have??
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Mukund
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| | Monday, April 28, 2003 - 7:01 am: |
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AADITYA: aacept my appology for speaking on your behalf to answer rajasee
RAJASEE: mala ase watat aahhe ki tu aadityaa che comments context chya baher ghetle aahes. mala ase nahi watat ki aadityaa ase mhanat aahe ki saglyaanich aanterjatiy vivaha kele pahijet and thats what going to cause samajunnati!. to ase mhanatoy ki je ase vivah kartil tyanna objection na gheta wish them good luck. tyanna negative feedback deoo naka.
aaNi rajasee mala tujhe american sanskritibadhhalche wichar wachooon khoop waieet watle. mala mahit nahi ki tumche way kiti aahe aNi tumhi kiti warshe ameriket khadli aahet.tyanna sanskitich nahi ha nishkarsh tumhii kashawaroon kadhata? divorce rate waroon? ki dating system waroon?ani american society maddhe ase kiti aanterjatiy vivah tumhi baghata? ani ya socity chya sarva problems la te anterjatiy vivah karnibhoot aahet ase ka tumhala watate?American lokkanna aachar vichar badhhata nahi ase ka tumhala watate? tumche sanskritiche nishkarsh kuthalya base war aadharale aahet? tumche kiti changlyaa american familinshi nikatcha sambandha aahe ki tumhala tyanche church life day to day life yachi ityanbhoot mahiti aahe?kahi trashy tv program waroon kinva sansanatikhej asha news media waroon jar tumhii tumche nishkarsh kadhat asal tar te changale aahe ka? swa jaticha swa prantacha swadeshacha abhiman asawa pan aple te changle ani duser te asanskrit asa (gair)samaj koni karoon ghyawa naye ase mala watat aahe.tumhi jyala anirbandha samaj mhanata to life liberty and persuit of happiness ya individualistic tatwanwar basawlela aahe .i think aaditya yach vicharashi zagadat aahe ki hi individualisti principals ani aapli bhartiy samajpadhhat ji itki ethnocentered aahe(bramhan-bramhan,ckp ckp,maratha maratha,marathi marathi,marwadi-marwadi,gujrathi gujrathi etc etc)yachi sangad ghalta yeieel ka?aaplyakade hazaro varshapasoon chalat aaleya jati bhedbhavacha aajahi rajasee sarkhya vyaktiwar jabardast pagada disoon yet aahe.aapli ti aachar paddhhati ani dusryanchi ti asanskriti he mala ekdam kotya budhhiche watate.jagat ashi kothlihi ek society nahi ki tyat changale aani waieet ya donhi gosti disoon yet nahit.aani sorry for bold statement pan aaplya bhartiya sanskrutitahi kititari lajjaspad goshti aapan aikato ani aaplali society ithalyaevadhi open nasalyamule kititari goshti saamaj waLit takel yachi bhiti mhanoon aaplya samor yet naahit teva rajasee ne asa (gair)samaj mulich karoo naye ki aaplya bhartiy samajat sagale kahi aalbel aahe.ya myboliche je kahi 4000 sabhasad aahet tyatlyach kiti tari jaNanai ani jaNinini asha kahi samasya chavatyawar aanlya aahet ki tyawaroon tumhala kalpana yawi ki 4000 madhe itke tar 1 billion madhe ase kiti (gair)prakar hot asatil? teva koni doosrya society badhhal ( mag te dusarya jatibaddal asot kinva dusarya prantabaddal asot kinva dusarya deshachya sanskritibaddhal asot)tika na karta tyatil changle kay aplyala gheta yeieel ani donhimadhil changlya goshtincha kasa sangam ghalta yeieel(tyasathi lagnach kele pahije ase nahi pan tya society madhe rahun dole matra ugadhe thevale pahijet! zapad lavlelya ghodyasarkhe wagale tar u can miss out on lot of great things which u can learn from other cultures!)yacha jar aapan saglyaani wichar kela tar aapli vaiyaktik unnati hoil. aaplya hatat yewadhe tari karne shakya aahe ase mala watate.nahitar ya deshat yeoon nustech paise kamawale aani vaiyaktik unnati kahich nahi ase nako vayala! apan je kahi india toon sanskritacha warsa gheoon alo toch aayushyabhar poora aahe ani aaplyala as a person mhanoon grow honyachi jaroor nahi asa vichar aapan karoo naye asehi mala watate.
ya postinmadhe rajasee tumchya swajatiya lagna karawe ya vicharachya ana-tharacha bilkool hetu navata he tumhi please lakshat ghyyawe. phakt ek UNRIGID drishtikon (parjatiya,swajatiya,pardharmiya ya vicharanna!) milawa mhanoon me he post kele aahe.
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Mukund- thanks so much for explaining my point of view..you have totally understood what I had to say..
Its great to see a person with your point of view here..This is truly a great post!truly..it says so much..even going beyond this topic of Aantar-Jaatiya vivah..This deserves a careful real reading..so let me do that and repsond to your posting.
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Now Rajasee- let me answer your questions..please do not tkae it personally- I am just expressing my point of view alright?
ok..
1.nivval aantar-jaatiya lagna kelyamule samajachi pragati hoil??
-Nischitach nahi..first of all it is only one aspect of society that we are talking about,right?So I won't go to that extent.
Maza mhanana evadhach ahe kee aapalyaa samaajaat aantar-jaatiya vivahla jo virodh ahe- tyacha mool jaati-jaatina ek mekanvishayi vatanaryaa prejudices andi duswasa mule ahe.I think evevryone has got to admit this.So the solution is not necessarily to make a totaly unified society,(although it would be nice to have one..but well thats pipedreaming,utopia..).The goal is to develop a sense between the castes to understanding each other.And when the bride and groom have taken a decision of inter-caste marriage people should see that as an opportunity to get to know another caste another community from a close distance..and the more we understand other catses, communities, the less prejudices we will harbor.That is my whole logic..
2.mishra samajala vaganyasathi kontachi basic "code of conduct" nasel
?? what code of conduct are you talking about? As far as I know, I am not here to oust law and order!! And well if it is the religious code of conduct that you are talking about, I do not care two hoots for it..I think religion should be personal.And as long as I am not harming anyone, am a law abiding citizen,attempting to do good to people and the society as a whole- no religion or book should tell me whom to marry, or what to do!Thats my personal choice.ok?I believe in religion to the extent that I derive my spiritual/philosophical gratification out of it.Code of conduct going by religion/theocracy has not proved to be useless even harmful ful in many places including India.Code of conduct by law with popular democratic governments has.And let me tell you that I am not an anarchist, I do believe in order and code of conduct.But religion should not dictate that.
3.je aapan bahuntanshi american sanskrutit baghota. kasalach dharbandh na thavalyamule tyanna swatachi ashi kontich sanskruti, aaharpadhati, aachar-vichar padhati urleli nahi.
- I STRONGLY disagree with you..America has its own culture, code of conduct.Aaharpadhatti, sangeet, chitrakalaa shilpa-kala, vastushastra ya saryammadhye
amercian lokani swatacha thasa umataval ahe..Before coming here, even I did not know all this.But well even after coming here, you have such views, then I feel you haven't really known america or made a sincere attempt to do so! I suggest that you go and meet american people, interact with them and then you will find that even here, tula aapalyasarkhech kutumbvatsal loka milatil.Making statements about a society without understanding it or even making an attempt to do so - one should refrain from it..
4.swajatiy vivah karoon itar margane samajik vidweshachi daree kamee karata yete?
I agree there are other ways..but other ways do not go to the root of the problem.Itar maargani keval var varchi malam patti hoil..
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Mukund, you had so may interesting points there..I thought I probably will have to paste your whole message again and then respond..Ha!ha!! I will try to limit myself from that as far as possible..
1.to ase mhanatoy ki je ase vivah kartil tyanna objection na gheta wish them good luck. tyanna negative feedback deoo naka.
-Exactly!
2.swa jaticha swa prantacha swadeshacha abhiman asawa pan aple te changle ani duser te asanskrit asa (gair)samaj koni karoon ghyawa naye!
-Again, I agree wholeheartedly! Mazya gavacha, prantacha ani deshacha mala khoop abhimaan ahe..parantu that doesn't come in my way of seeing what is good or bad about my country and about other countries.. abhimaan ha raast goshtinchya babatit asawa..durabhimaan asu naye..
Ani mazya deshacha abhimaan yacha artha dusarya deshacha paanutara asa hota nahi..
Any logical point-by-point criticism of American or Indian culture is alright..most welcome.But making generalized statements without backing them up with facts is not good..I am really sick and tired of this Americas/western culture bashing that we are indulging in!
3.aaplya bhartiya sanskrutitahi kititari lajjaspad goshti aapan aikato ani aaplali society ithalyaevadhi open nasalyamule kititari goshti saamaj waLit takel yachi bhiti mhanoon aaplya samor yet naahit
-Very true.I happen to know a lot more than urban people, since I grew up in a village in India..gavakade gossipingmadhun ya goshti baher yetatach..and plus my parents are lawyers,they have worked for a number of divorced women free of charge-for their alimony etc..Ina lot of case even though they were apapearing on the husband's side, they took an initiative in getting the couple back together.Because of this background, I know for a matter of fact that many things that we criticize abt US society happen as frequently in India- pre-marital affairs, (I personally do not think this is necessarily bad at all!)extra-marital affairs ..child abuse ..everything. ..and believe me these things happen in a much more clandestaine, much more dirty manner in India.
4.nahitar ya deshat yeoon nustech paise kamawale aani vaiyaktik unnati kahich nahi ase nako vayala! apan je kahi india toon sanskritacha warsa gheoon alo toch aayushyabhar poora aahe ani aaplyala as a person mhanoon grow honyachi jaroor nahi asa vichar aapan karoo naye asehi mala watate
-Again, I agree wholeheartedly..Mukund, its great to see a person like you here on maayboli.Will look fwd to reading your views on other BBs too...
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Ajjuka
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| | Monday, April 28, 2003 - 6:45 pm: |
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Fantastic brainstorming Aditya and Mukund. very honest and detailed observation of the societies around. great!
Aditya, the dilemma between being an Indivisual and being a part of Indian society is SO VERY TRUE! I think every sensible person must be undergoing this.
the whole dispute about sanskruti revolves around this same thing. I applaud to you for raising this issue.
you people have said everything that I would have said about intercaste marriages so why repeat now! still here are my 2 cents. my marriage is intercaste marriage and forget the parents I was discouraged by friends of my age or younger than me. that was unnerving. My intercaste marriage is not intentionally intercaste. I happened to love this guy who is born in another some other caste and that makes no difference when we are together. I think the talk of difference in 'riti reevaaj' is completely overrated. It does not matter when 2 people connect with each other. that is what marriage is about.
I want to add one more thing, everybody here answer me this. What do you think marriage is about? dont tell me what indian society thinks. you sensible people, tell me your views. that is what is going to lead us to the subject of intercaste marriages.
hope nobody is hurt! if somebody is then they just need to get this cleared in their mind that this is no personal attack. and these are my views about our society, based on my experience and study. I completely have a right to hold some opinion about the society and culture I live in, even though it does not match with many.
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Rajasee
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| | Monday, April 28, 2003 - 7:03 pm: |
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I agree to both of you mukund and aaditya for lesser knowledge about family oriented american people. But I know that the percentage of such population is lesser than the percentage who misuse their individualism. Though even in family oriented people they have concepts like dating, prom night to which I am highly unapproved of.
Though I am against inter-caste marriage, but it's limited to me. I have got no concerns about other people marrying within caste or inter-caste. I was/am never in the crowd of people who repeatedly nagging these couples.(well, mostly these couples got nagged by their own family members only  )I am resting my case here.
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rajasee-I completely understand your point of view and definitely you are entitled to have it..!This whole concept of discussions is for understanding each other's points of views..isn't it?So I am glad you have a different point of view..otherwise we'd have no discussion..
Ajjuka- in response to your question on what marriage is about, I am planning to start a new BB in this section "views and comments"
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Keya
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| | Monday, April 28, 2003 - 7:45 pm: |
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Rajasee,
>>well, mostly these couples got nagged by their own family members only
Not necessarily, not always. Many times it's by the society, so-called friends and distant relatives. In these cases family members support the couple.
To me a human being should always be greater than a caste.
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Asami
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| | Monday, April 28, 2003 - 9:05 pm: |
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What marriage is all about ?
Ajjuka says it is about two people getting together. My take on it is that this is incomplete definition of marriage. It is missing very vital portion of life. It is not only about connecting but about connecting and preserving the bond. And it is the later which is never given its due of thoughts.
'Connecting two people' could be attributed to any number of reason, One can write whole encyclopedia about norms in which people can get connected. (shrini can take a note of this, there is an ample opportunity for him ). You can easily feel connected to somebody depending upon numerous factors.
However, preserving this bond over the course of life is not an easy task. If feelings of connections are not supportive enough, this part of marriage could very well be turned into nightmare. There are no bars of caste, love, relatives and whatever you could throw at.
Such strong feeling can arise and grow not only out of love but also could be due to value systems, social norms, customs, believes, time. Chances are more that people raised in similar environment will common basis and understanding for them.
Now if one takes care of reverting time wheel and look back into past, whole concept of caste arised out of common need of bringing people with similar life patterns together to form society. I think thats why it is very natural that caste system inducted itself to the higher degree of iomportance in valueble things such as marriage.
However, with changing norms of life standards, different things are bound to force vacancy in there. But there will be always be something, may it be caste or other substitute system, which will be imparting its values over decision of marriage.
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