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Kedarjoshi
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| | Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 8:20 pm: | 
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उद्या समजा भारत आणि सौदी अरेबियाचे काही परस्परविरोधी हितसंबंध असले, तर मन्डळी कोणाच्या बाजूने असतील >>>>>>
चिंटु अरे असे आधीही झाले आहे तरी तुला प्रश्न का पडला.
१९१९ ते २५ च्या दरम्यान खिलाफत चळवळ नावाची चळवळ महात्मा गांधीनी सुरु केली. प्रत्यक्षात हया खिलाफत चळवळीचा आपल्या देशाच्या स्वातंत्र्याशी काहीही संबध न्हवता. कोण तो खलीफा नी त्या साठी भारतात का सत्याग्रह करायचा? तो पण हिंदु मुस्लीमांना साथ घेऊन. त्या फालतु खलीफा साठी पण आपण रक्त सांडल आहे.
या नी अशाच फालतु कारणांमुळे माझा विरोध त्यांना आहे. अरे तुम्ही जिथे जन्मला, राहाता त्या देशाला का कमी लेखता. नाहीतर जा या देशातुन.
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Soultrip
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 6:19 am: |
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मित्रांनो, आज ७ सप्टेंबर!
बोला, वंदे मातरम!! जय हिंद!!!
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Limbutimbu
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 6:39 am: |
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वन्दे मातरम! .. ..
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Samuvai
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 7:45 am: |
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त्वं हि दुर्गा दशप्रहरणधारिणीम
कमला कमलदल विहारिणीम
वाणी विद्या दायिनीम
वन्दे मातरम!
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Moodi
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 7:56 am: |
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अरे बाबांनो आता काय म्हणणार रे तुम्ही यांना? मी ही संघवादीच आहे पण माझे मुद्दे अतीशय वेगळे असल्याने ते इथे मांडणार नाही, पण हे वाचा आणि सांगा.
http://www.esakal.com/esakal/09072006/CCEDB03FA6.htm
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Soultrip
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 9:10 am: |
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The latest update on the news above (ref- link by Moodi)- The SGPC has taken a U turn on his stance! (ref - Times of India)
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Samuvai
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 9:25 am: |
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मी जी litmus test म्हणतो त्याचा उपयोग हाच ... वेळीच "कुत्रे" ओळखणे. हे नक्की काॅग्रेज प्रणीत कारस्थान आहे. पण शीख बांधवांची मला फार चिंता नाही कारण बहुसंख्येने ते स्वत:ला हिंदू धर्माचा भागच मानतात. काही दळभद्री नेत्यांपाठी जाण्या ईतके मूर्ख शीख नक्कीच नाहीत.
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Moodi
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 9:34 am: |
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सोलट्रीप आत्ताच ती बातमी बघीतली, चांगले आहे मग शीख बांधव जर यावरुन स्वतला वेगळे समजणार नसतील तर.
समुवै तुम्हाला माझे म्हणणे कदाचीत पटणार नाही पण कुठल्याही माणसाला निदान पब्लीक फोरमवर तरी विवीध प्राण्यांची उपमा देणे टाळा. ते अजीबात योग्य नाही. उलट यातुन तुमचे कुठलेच मुद्दे लोकांच्या मनापर्यंत पोहोचणार नाहीत. आज लोक प्रमोद महाजन, वाजपेयी, अडवाणी यांनाच लक्षात ठेवतात, उमा भारती, ऋतुंभरा यासारख्यांना नाही.
माझ्या बोलण्याने तुम्हाला राग आला असेल तर सॉरी, पण माझे मत मी सांगीतले.
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Soultrip
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 9:36 am: |
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एकाच धर्मातुन नानाविध धर्म (जैन, बौद्ध, शिख) सुरु होऊ देणार्‍या हिंदु धर्माखेरीज दुसरा धर्म या पृथ्वी-तलावर नाही!
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Samuvai
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| | Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 9:54 am: |
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moodi ,
धन्यवाद!
अहो राग कसला ... उलट आभारी आहे. तुमच म्हणण बरोबर आहे.
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Samuvai
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| | Friday, September 08, 2006 - 5:07 am: |
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वंदे मातरम गायनासाठी सोनिया गांधी, मनमोहनसिंग अनुपस्थित ... madam आजारी आहेत म्हणे.
बुधवारी रात्री गणेश विसर्जनाच्या मिरवणुकीत मंडळांनी ठिकठिकाणी वंदे मातरम गायले. सर्व तरुणाई स्तब्ध उभी राहून वंदे मातरम गात होती ... हे घडवून आणल्याबदाल मंडळांच अभिनंदन!
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BREAKING NEWS... MAALEGAAVAT BLAST..!!!!
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Aschig
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| | Saturday, September 09, 2006 - 10:00 pm: |
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shailesh, shilpa, well written. The Vande mataram issue is just like airport security - it makes gullible common people feel they are safer while the real terrorists can get in any way.
Any thing that needs to be or is made compulsory is useless in a way. One should have the freedom to do ANYTHING provided that at all the different levels one bleongs to, the act does not create trouble in the working of those levels.
We are always operating at different levels: individual, family, clan (or caste or religion), city, state, country, humanity ...
If, when I go home, I do not touch the feet of my parents, they may FEEL bad. But so long as they understand that I still harbour good thoughts about them, I am not doing anything "bad" at the family level. On the other hand, if they enforce me to touch their feet, they ARE doing something bad at an individual level to me.
If we know that Indian muslims have good thoughts about India, how does it matter if they do or do not sing Vande Mataram? And, if the whole point is that Indian muslims - and all of them as a generalization - are sold (as some seem to believe), how will their reciting Vande Mataram - like a miracle mantra - change that?
If the whole argument is just about Indian muslims being bad eggs, why dress it in the Vande Mataram garb?
To me this then translates directly to the level of religion. a question humanity has unfortunately had to tackle since its infancy - having been caught in the grip of fear of the unseen and believeing it to control their lives - forgetting that it is their own abilities that have brought them to the top of the food chain.
Some people seem to encourage the secularists (pseudo- in their words) to leave the Hindu India without realising that if they indeed do so, India will get reduced to just another rogue religious state. No different from countries they SEEM to oppose tooth and nail.
On a lighter note (really, please do not take it seriously)
may be we should keep tab on who recites Vande Mataram the maximum number of times and make him/her the next prime-minister.
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Graceful
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| | Sunday, September 10, 2006 - 3:57 pm: |
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Great posting!!
Recently, a TV channel (CNN-IBN) asked some of the so-called Nationalistic leaders to recite Vande Mataram on camera. Most could not do it and some even distorting it beyond recognition.
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Chyayla
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| | Sunday, September 10, 2006 - 5:34 pm: |
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Aschig.. well try to defend your weak point, I think you did not went through this BB.
Just tell me when you were in School did you refuse to sing national song Jan Gan Man or to salute National flag on 15th August and 26th January. on the same excuse you trying to give.
This is very hyprocritic statement by singing Vande Matataram it will reduce to Religious state. there is nothing religious in this song.
And we are never against nation loving muslims, we respect personlaity like APJ Abdul kalam Azaad. Infact this way we are trying to reduce a nation to religious state, we need not to teach about secularism. do you dare to go to Pakistaan or any other muslim country and give your lecture on secularism? where minority community is really in peril... they will kick on your xxx.
GraceFool... They might be don't know the full song, but they proud and respect to say just "Vande Mataram" that is enough for us.
And what about you? can you sing it..? I bet you don't.
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Aschig
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| | Sunday, September 10, 2006 - 8:31 pm: |
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C, the only point I am making is that saying or not saying something - anything - can not be an acid test of patriotism.
I never refused to sing jan gana mana in school. I was being brought up in an environment where questioning things was not the norm. Now that I have had a chance to sample other thoughts, read and experience a variety of philosophies, and have learnt to make up my mind by combining varied inputs as well as experiences, if I now become a school prinicipal and someone in that school refuses to sing the national anthem but in all other sense is patriotic, i will look upon such a student sympathetically.
Yes, there is nothing religious in vande mataram. Only the intentions in its enforcement are. Let us take a hypothetical example of a Brahmin who can not part with his sacred thread staying in a country called foo. In this country, the patriotic sense demands that all local men be naked above waist between noon and 1 PM and can not have any ornament on their bodies. The Brahmins protest that they are patriotic, but their religion does not allow them to be separated from the sacred thread. How is this to be solved?
I sure won't like to live in Pakistan. I hope that is not our ideal.
I don't get you last paragraph. The whole point is that you can not judge someone based on if they can recite vande mataram or not. I can get my laptop to recite it.
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Chyayla
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| | Sunday, September 10, 2006 - 11:51 pm: |
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First thing Vande Mataram is not the choice or enforcemnet it's obligation.
Are you really sick? that you are not able to see that who have religious intentions, infact this is not from our side but it is from "unpatriotic" jihadist muslims only. we are opposing that religious intention. if you truly concerned to oppose religious intention then this is the most suitable case for you.
your every point is supporting to Jihadi only and not any patriotic muslim, are you aware of that?
Thanks God that you are not the Principal to allow such indiscipline.
This onesided sympathy created nuisance in India. I will really appreciate if you have same sympathy for innocent hindus killed in Kashmir and kashmiri refugees.
Ha ha ha...you yourself answered to my last paragraph , yes I can also recite Vande Matarm " Fully" if have laptop or printed stuff, no need to jump if someone is not able to sing Full Vande Mataram.
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Aschig
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| | Monday, September 11, 2006 - 1:14 am: |
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C, you misinterpreted my last sentence. What I meant was that my laptop can sing vande mataram, and yet no sensible person will claim that my laptop is patriotic.
If I interpret your writing, you seem to divide people (Indians in any case) in to 4 catagories:
(1) hindus who are for vande mataram,
(2) hindus who may or may not be for vande mataram but see no point in making it compulsory,
(3) non-hindus who will comply with the compulsion of singing vande mataram as an obligation, and finally
(4) non-hindus who do not want to recite vande mataram as a compulsion
If we divide these catagories on religious basis, 1 and 2 go together (and so do 3 and 4), and if we divide these on the basis of secularism and democracy (or freedom of thought), 1 and 3 go together (and so do 2 and 4).
In either case, patriotism is an orthogonal dimension.
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Chyayla
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| | Monday, September 11, 2006 - 1:47 am: |
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I don't see such divisions, and what about.
the religious intention by jihadis.
I think you confused with "Hindu". Hindu is not the religion it's a way of life it is the culture of this land, and no religious attachments to this, all patriotic muslims and christians are also hindu as per real defination of hindu. Why you always smell religion after the name of hindu.
the poor understanding of this term is your real problem. knowingly and unknowingly This is you, who is dividing the nation in religions and supporting separatist.
Vande Mataram was that mantra which united every freedom fighters together, at that time no one attached religious meaning and was no objections, lot of muslim krantikaraks also sung this songs while they were hanged.
I salute those muslims who consider Bharat as motherland, my objection is to only those Jihadis, who wants to divide this land, I hope you will also agree with this.
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Aschig
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| | Monday, September 11, 2006 - 3:11 am: |
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I agree with almost everything you have stated in this last post. Your all encompassing definition of Hindu is welcome though Christians and Muslims may object to being included in Hindu (though not in Indian) just like people who are Buddhist and jain will even if those are direct offshoots of Hinduism. Now that we have eliminated the aspect of religion, let us come back to the obligation of vande mataram and its possible use as a test to separate true Indians and non-(true)-Indians or non-Jihadis and Jihadis.
Let us for now equate fully a true Indian and non-Jihadi, and also equate a jihadi and non-(true)-Indian though this is another simplistic definition since the later alsoincludes real foreigners who are not Jihadis.
Such a classification quickly excludes the spurious examples like my laptop and a non-speaking parrot - who respectively can and will not sing vande mataram - because they are not people.
But there will be other real people who claim to be true Indians who will not say Vande Mataram e.g.
(1) a dumb person who has physical disabilities,
(2) a deaf and blind person who can not be communicated that he is supposed to say vande Mataram,
(3) a child who can not speak yet
(4) a person, because he grew up like tarzan does not understand Indian languages,
(5) a Hindu asetic who has taken the vow of not speaking
(6) A moslem who can not "pray" to anything except allah
(7) a strong headed person who does not like to be told what to do.
More examples certainly could be added. All the above, I hope you agree, can be true Indians, true patriots. So there must be something else that is the essence of patriotism (if such a thing could at all be separated). Isn't it more likely that patriotism is a much more abstract concept?
The reason I equated patriotism with religion earlier is because unfortunately in today's India I can not equate it with secularity or freedom of thought. I would love to do that. In fact, just like your all encompassing definition of Hindu, I would love to extend the definition of patriotism to encompass all earth (rather than artificial and ephemeral geographic boundaries) and coin a new term called humanity. May be one day people will start using this term.
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| मायबोली |
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| चोखंदळ ग्राहक |
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| महाराष्ट्र धर्म वाढवावा |
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| व्यक्तिपासून वल्लीपर्यंत |
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| पांढर्‍यावरचे काळे |
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| गावातल्या गावात |
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| तंत्रलेल्या मंत्रबनात |
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| आरोह अवरोह |
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| शुभंकरोती कल्याणम् |
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| विखुरलेले मोती |
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